So some people are just boom, they're natural. Some people, it takes a little time to warm up. It's okay. We'll get you there. Hey, actor, I am so glad you joined us. You are in for a special treat. So I want you to get a pen, a pad, something good to drink, and pull up a chair. Because today we are doing a master class on headshot sessions from beginning to end. My guest today is one of the premier headshot photographers himself, Mr. Jeff Lepenzie. He's also an actor. So it makes it even that much better when he shoots you because he knows what it takes to have a great headshot. In case this is your first time, my name is Lydia Nicole. I'm an actor, a producer, and an acting career coach. And this is Acting Smarter Now, where we want you not just to dream of being an actor, but live being a working actor. So without further delay, let's go into this interview, which is fire as a working actor yourself. What made you decide that you wanted to shoot other actors' headshots? Kind of a silly story. COVID came along. My second room opened up in my apartment, and I turned it into a self-tape room at first for self-tapes, of course. And then I really wanted to do headshots. I was like, I think I want to do headshots. So I had a camera, started taking some shots of my fiance, and she's like, You're actually really good at this. And I was like, okay, um, maybe I'll turn this into a business and shelled out a lot of money to get the right equipment and just started. Started with my actor friends and got great feedback, not only from them, but they're from their agents. And it just kind of blossomed and rolled into it. I mean, it's fun because, of course, being an actor myself, I've taken a million headshots and to now be on the other side and helping helping other actors get their headshots to get auditions and booking. I don't know. It's just um it's another way of being creative for me. So, as an actor who has taken a bunch of headshots, like you said, commercial and theatrical, what were some of the things that you learned that allowed you to feel comfortable and confident in you taking your headshots? I just learned that the best headshots that I ever gotten was when I was with a photographer that made me feel free, that made me have fun, that made me think uh of different scenarios and different setups. Um, but it's mostly being with somebody that I just felt comfortable with to be myself. Because then when you can just be yourself and be free, you're gonna get the best shots. I think that's one of the biggest things I learned from other headshot photographers over my years. Full transparency. I have worked with Jeff. So I want all of you to know that this, you know, this is not a random photographer. I have worked with Jeff before. I love Jeff. Jeff, you are probably one of the best photographers I've worked with. And as far as how you make the subject feel so comfortable, you make me feel so comfortable in front of the camera. You make me feel so uninhibited, which, as actors, we know that is uh just something that you have to have. You you know, most actors are inhibited, they can be in front of a camera uh giving lines, but when it comes to still photography, I find most actors are so uncomfortable with it, and and that's where they mess up because they're so uncomfortable with the headshots and with the the shoot itself that they look stiff. They they look like you know, they're in front of a firing squad and they're just not gonna uh make it. But you make the process so make it fun. You also what I love is that you bring the music in. You know, you you are very good at saying, what kind of music do you like? What you know, what kind of music do you want to listen to? So when you're listening to the music, it does a whole different thing uh to the psyche, so you don't feel as restricted, you know, because we we tend to go, you know, we're we're we're shooting around here, right? Yeah. And so you feel like, okay, I can't move because they're gonna get everything. And sometimes you have photographers who will tell you, okay, uh, scooch over just a chintz. What is a chintz? I don't know. And and so what I love about you is that you really give us the freedom and say, don't worry about it. Um so I want to use this time as a bit of a masterclass for actors. So uh let's start from the beginning. Before um before the actor actually starts to hire you, what are some of the things they need to do in preparation? Well, first and foremost, when you're trying to find a headshot photographer, look at their Instagram, look at their website. You need to see if you actually like their work. Don't go to somebody just because they're the cheapest if you don't like their work. That that Instagram and that website is their calling card. So if you like their work, great. That's step number one. Number two, read the website. Maybe you find out a little more about the photographer to say, oh, I like the way that person thinks, or I like how they approach a headshot session. Um, and then two, you talk to some peers. Um, and act, you know, you can always get good recommendations from agents because they see so many different headshots. They'll have their little favorites. But talk to other actors too, because look, if somebody wants to get a headshot and and they come to you and like, Lydia, uh, who should I see? And you're gonna be like, you gotta see Jeff because of this, this, this, this, and this. You're like, great, that sounds good to me. Or maybe like, ooh, I don't want all that pressure of having to have fun and enjoy myself during a headshot session. I need somebody else. You know, it's like you need to pick somebody that just kind of resonates with you. I get a lot of people that will come to me and like, oh, I read your little bio on your website, and I thought it was kind of fun, and I wanted to work with that. Great. You know, that's the thing because that's what I am. We're gonna have fun. That's the whole point of headshots. But really, do your research, don't rush into taking headshots. That's that's what I'll say first and foremost. Let's go back to cheap uh photos, because I think that's where actors get into so much trouble. They end up going for the cheap, which costs them so much money. Because unless the photographer is doing a crazy special, yeah, and you've seen their work and you see how good they are, uh, to me, cheap is more costly. I mean, it certainly can be in the in the long run. Um, and that's because the photographer may not be very good. They may not have good enough lighting, they may not um really know how to be comfortable in front of an actor to make you feel stiff and not yourself. Um it can be a huge downfall. But first and foremost, look at their stuff. Look at their stuff. If you like their stuff and they're cheap, great, give it a shot. But it's so hard to say one way or the other because I know I get it. Um, I tried all the cheap methods too. Um, because you just don't have a lot of money sometimes starting off. But this is an investment in you and your business. Acting is a business. Um, so I'm not saying go out and get somebody like Theo and Juliet, who's thousands of dollars or anything like that. You may get great shots. I've heard people get terrible shots from them. You know, it the most important thing: look at their work. And if you can talk to them, you know, maybe find a way to just talk to them for a minute and feel like, oh, I get a little vibe off this person. But yes, cheap can sometimes come back and haunt you. I would add to that, save the money. Yeah. Save it. If it means you have to wait three months in order to take a great headshot that will last you a minimum of a year and a half. If you haven't changed, if you haven't uh changed your hairdo or your facial hair, if you are selling the same thing for the next 18 months, that picture will serve you. It is really important um to err on the side of caution, not, you know, and don't okay, I'm gonna let you talk about this because I have very strong feelings about this. Someone who says, I can do a selfie. Sure, you can. And the strange thing is, yeah, that might be okay for like one of your shots um for when somebody wants something casting is asking for like real people or somebody off the street, or you know, unless it's like a like it's you out camping and you're in the woods and you've got trees all over you, you know, something that shows how rugged you are, or something that shows you um in a swimsuit because you're a diver, or you know, maybe that can work. It's a very rare special occasion that you can actually get away with something like that. But no, it's not. I'm gonna pop a couple selfies uh because there's good light coming in my window in my kitchen and you know, and put it up there. It's it's probably not gonna work because you're not gonna be, you're not gonna be a character. You're not gonna be something that casting is looking for. You're gonna be what you think casting is looking for, what you think they want. Um, and look at me, how pretty I am in this light. And and it's just not gonna, it's not gonna come across the way you want it to, ultimately. All right. So now we have an idea of the photographer because we've been looking at our Instagram, we're looking at their uh website, we're getting a feel of how they take headshots because every photographer has their own thumbprint of what they do. Some are really good at capturing the actor, and then some are really good at giving you their style. What I like about you is I'm bringing it back to you, Jeff. What I like about you is that you really go to help the actor. So um, so now we know you you need a good photographer, you need somebody who takes a reputable headshot, who uh when you look at their gallery, you get to see how the actor sells themselves. So let's talk about what actors should be looking for once they've gotten the photographer. How do they sell themselves? When they're coming to you to take their headshots, what should they be uh planning before they come to you? Because now that they've decided you're the guy they're gonna shoot with, now they have to get to the nitty-gritty of what kind of headshots am I taking? Uh, what what am I going for as an actor? What's my brand? So what are the first things you say to them as they get ready for their headshot and they're planning it out? Number one, if you have an agent, talk to your agents. That's the most important thing because they're the ones submitting you most of the time. Yes, there's self-submissions, of course, but they know what they need in their arsenal to get you auditions. Um, that's the number one thing. And number two is you have to know yourself as an actor, which is not an easy thing to do. It's really not, because we always all of us want to be the leading man or the leading woman when we're not. We're the quirky best friend, or we're the um kiss butt assistant, or you know, or we're a stern CEO. You know, it's we we all think we can play everything, but there's when you see shows and commercials, you see that person's like, oh, that guy's the quirky assistant. Oh, that guy's a stern teacher. You know, like you see those characters. They just are those characters. Um because they look at the whole look from head to toe is that's what they they just put off. Um it's hard to find that. Um, and and you do that by like maybe in your if you're in an acting class, if you're not, you should be. Um, asking an acting teacher, asking other acting um uh cohorts, you know, to know what do you think I play? What do you think, and and just being honest with yourself, you know. Like I always I always wanted to be the leading man. Oh, yeah, I'm I'm this guy. No, I'm not that guy. I'm not that guy. It's okay. It's okay to not be that guy. Other people book too, you know. You don't always have to be this one thing. Talk to your agents, find out who you are, and then kind of really think about those characters that you want to play in commercials as well as um theatrically. Um, it's it's important to kind of know those things about yourself and be honest with yourself, which is not always easy to do. As far as agents, yes, agents are good to talk to, but if they don't know what you sell, because sometimes agents are selling you based on what they think you sell, but that's not what you sell. The only way you're gonna know what you sell is in an acting class or by looking at some of your work. Shoot some scenes so you can get an idea of your physicality in it. What you know, um a leading man has changed from 20 years ago. You got quirky leading men, you got goofy leading men, you have very tough leading men now. But what doesn't change is what you bring to the table. And if you don't like what you're bringing, then you might have to do a whole overhaul before you even think of headshot. So I want you to really be uh thinking about this because the headshot is your calling card. Nobody is going to call you in if you're not saying something specific to them. You have to speak to them by that headshot. It's not, oh, well, if they call me in, then they'll get to see what I do. No, no, no, no, no. You have to put it in the headshot. So as Jeff was saying, talk to your agent, talk to your teacher, you know, uh, and and you should be in an acting class for more than a year because that's when the teacher gets to know you. Don't jump around, you know, I'm gonna take this class for a month and I'm gonna take this class for a month. They do not know you. They're they're they're trying to figure you out. And it takes at least six months for the teacher to start to understand what it is that you do. So um, this is not a short process, this is long term. So you have to think um, what kind of actor do I want to be? If you're an actor who hasn't done training, hasn't done anything, and you think sitting in on a class or watching some videos or because you memorize lines, that makes you an actor. My friend, you are mistaken. Stop it now. I just want you to know to stop it because we're not having it. So we want you to be prepared. Take the headshot is so important. It's so important to be comfortable with the photographer, to be comfortable in your skin, in whatever you sell. And that that is what you do great, Jeff. You really make the actor feel um special. You you really do make that um, and I say that because I've like you, I've had a lot of photographers. I've had photographers who have made me feel so uncomfortable that, and and and it wasn't a cheap photographer, but it made me, they made me feel so uncomfortable I had to do a another shoot with a different photographer just to get a shot. So I just think that's really important. So, okay, I didn't mean to, I didn't mean to commandeer this, but I I have such a passion about actors being prepared. You know, it's not because it's not about talent here. We're not talking talent. Talent comes later. You gotta know what you sell, and that is why you're taking headshots. So you know, uh so industry knows what you sell. So, okay, so now you're getting an idea if you are um a white-collar uh, you know, if you're selling white-collar like the businessman, the CEO, or if you're a blue collar, if you're the mechanic, or you're the um lab tech, or you're the um pool shooter or the pool cleaner. Yeah, yeah. Uh those are very specific uh characters. Perpetual victim. You you you know, maybe you're the perpetual victim. We can put you in a lot of roles, but you definitely play victim. We need to know that. So now we're coming into identifying what you sell. So, how do they start to pick their wardrobe? Boy, that's a tough one. Because you you really need to take the time to think about the characters that you've talked about, but also get it a little more hyper-specific. If you're a CEO, are you the CEO of a small startup company and you're all full of hope and and all that stuff? Or are you just that had haggard old CEO who's been there, done that, and wants it done right? It's gotta be done right, you know, like Stern. Um, if you're a mom, are you the frazzled mom who's like kids are driving me crazy? Or are you the best PTA mom there's there's ever seen? Your organic food for the bake sale is the best ever. You know, it's there's different little levels to each of those characters that you really have to think about. Um and that's and the wardrobe that goes with that, man, not being a wardrobe stylist, it's hard for me to pinpoint on that. What do you see that pops uh uh best on camera? So let's go there. Like when when someone is shooting, what what do you see that pops best? It really varies with the person. I like something that has some pattern to it, some pop of color to it. But I would also, if you have a shirt that's a lot of pattern, a lot of colors, it's good to throw a jacket over it just to break it up, just so it's not all like if I'm shooting in this, I've got this, you know, this little pop of gray here to kind of help out. But if it was just all this, it's just nothing but all one color, all navy. So you want little pops, little hints of color, little hints of character, little hints of flair with jewelry or a scarf, or you know, sometimes I'll if a blue-collar guy comes in, we'll put on like a trucker cap, you know, to just bring it to the next level. Um it's really when it comes to wardrobe, bring a lot of stuff. Bring extra stuff because you just don't know what's going to work in my setup, in my room. Um, but it's always good to take selfies with what you're wearing to just see if it even looks good on camera. A lot of people come in here with just flat colors. Everything's dark, like they'll have a dark, uh, dark, you know, flannel shirt with a dark t-shirt. So it's all just dark, dark, dark, dark, dark. There's no contrast, there's no levels. Let's talk layers that in with their outfits. How how important are layers? Because that that seems to me like that's what you're getting at is they should have some layers and they should be contrasting. Yeah, you know, layers are always good. Um, hoodie, uh jean jacket, um, an athletic uh sweatshirt that's a little more form-fitted. Um, all these things can just quickly give you another look completely. Uh uh, and and then it's also just it just gives a little more visual interest when you have something with some layers and stuff like that. And and but also wear clothes that make you happy. Wear clothes that make you feel good, like the the everyday shot, the most important shot commercially, especially, is the everyday you shot. The shot that you look like if you went out to lunch with your buddies or brunch on the weekend. Something not too shlubby, but not too fancy. Just something that fits you that you feel great wearing. And let's give it a shot. You know, I I I know we'll probably get into all this other stuff later, but I shoot tethered, so you're gonna see what I shoot right when I shoot it, so we'll know right away if it's working or not. But wardrobe always brings more than you think. It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Tethered. What does that mean for an actor who has no idea what tethered means? Yeah, honestly, I had no idea what tethered meant before I started this as well. Um what it means is my camera is hooked up to my computer via a cable. Um, so when I take that picture, you're gonna instantly see it on a big old monitor, big old monitor, what you look like. And that's your time to number one, see how awesome you look, because you do look awesome. And number two, do I have a hair sticking out over here or anything like that? Or is this outfit not working, or is the background not working? That's your time to to really look. And make adjustments, right? Make adjustments, yes. To make adjustments and not be afraid to tell the photographer that you need to make an adjustment that doesn't that's you you it that doesn't quite work. I think I think a lot of actors are afraid to talk to the photographer. So how would an actor come to you if they're looking at the monitor and and they don't like the background, but they don't want to, they don't want to insult you. Look, insult me. These are not for me. These are for you. I want to make you happy. And if you're not happy, let's change it up. I say that, I try to say that. Hopefully you'd remember, hopefully I said it to you as well. This is a collaboration. This is not about me. If you see something you don't like, speak up. Let's fix it. Because remember back in the day, we were shooting film, and you wouldn't even know what things looked like for weeks, you know, until you finally got the picture, and you're like, why was my collar sticking like this the whole time and nobody did anything about it? Or why did I have this hair? You know, it's like you couldn't do anything about it. That's why I shoot tethered, because I want people to know right away, yeah, that's working. Or no, that's not working. And a lot of times, you know, it's it's kind of funny. I'm gonna go to this real quick. When I shoot tethered and people see themselves for the first time, first they're like, oh, I look like that. But then after a while, they're like, oh, I look like that, because we start getting some really great shots. You know, everybody's always a little nervous at first, but I kind of like it when people get to see themselves and see how good they really look when they just when they just let go, have fun. And that's when they start getting that confidence to go, like, yeah, I'm getting great shots this time. And that's makes me happy as a pig in slop. Really does. I want people to succeed. I want you to succeed. I'm an actor too. I get it. I want these things to be the best shots you've ever had. Does it always happen? No. But I I really, I really want you to succeed. I do, I do, I do. Plain and simple. You also mentioned accessories. Yeah and how important is it to bring accessories and different and for women, different types of jewelry and making sure that the jewelry connects to the image you want to give, not just because they're nice earrings, you you know, oh, I like these, so I'm gonna wear these, but how important are the accessories um for that character or for that brand? I mean, it really can make a big difference. Um, like if you wear just a dress, no necklace, it seems a little more casual. But then you throw pearls on that, and then you're all of a sudden the country club lady. You know, it just it's just another one of those little tiny layers that gives it specificity. And it's important. It's everything's important these days because you've got just a little square. Back in the day, we had eight by tens, physical eight by tens that a casting director would hold up and look at, and you get to see a big picture. Now it's just a tiny little square, and there's hundreds of them. So you need those little things that kind of stand out and grab that eye, that that casting director is scrolling through, and like, oh, that's exactly the character. That's exactly with the character. And it's those little minute things, even though it's in a small square, they see it and they'll see it. So it's important to just have those things to really fine-tune everything. How important is hair and makeup for men and women in the headshot process? Look, I this is my my controversial thing. Um, is it super important? No. I'd rather you spend your money on wardrobe. Um, but hair and makeup, if you get a great person, it does help. It helps the actor too just know that like, I'm gonna look great, my hair is gonna be done, and it's another thing they don't have to think about. Because the headshot, again, it's all about the homework that we talked about, the preparation. Because when you do all that beforehand and you come in, you just let it all go. We have our game plan. Let it go. Let's be an actor, let's see what happens. Because things change, things change all the time. So, having hair and makeup person, yeah, it's I'm not gonna say don't do it, but if you have money to spend on one thing or the other, I'd rather you put it towards a wardrobe stylist. So I'm gonna be very controversial here. Jeff. I'm gonna say you need it all. You if you're gonna take headshots, the best thing you could do is set yourself up to win. Don't take risks. If you're not good with hair and makeup, you must hire a hair and makeup person and hire someone that you feel comfortable with. Part of the process is when you're doing headshots, you want to be taken care of. And that's something that as actors, we don't give ourselves. Um, you know, we're trying to um budget. It's all about the budget. And and I get it, you know, it's hard to save your money and do whatever, but this is the biggest expense you are going to uh put for your career in the beginning, especially in the beginning. Why not set yourself up to win? And this is something no one told me. I don't know if people said that to you, but as a girl, you know, I and starting out, uh no one told me how important hair and makeup was. And then I'd get the pictures, I go, oh, these these are I don't like how these look. And and it's not to be glamorous. If you're not, if you're not the the ingenue and you're not the leading lady, that's not the type of makeup I'm talking about. I'm talking about stuff that just makes you look like the the brand that you want to show up as. You don't get a do-over, the picture is the only thing they see before they bring you in. And if you're a new actor, that is crucial. You know, it's bad enough that you have a lot of competition. Not really, but you know, that in the day of uh social media and in the day of computers and all of that, casting directors are looking at thousands of pictures for one role. So you gotta come with your best. So I am going to say to you, actor, you must put that money to wardrobe, hair, makeup, and a great photographer. Not just a great photographer who takes great pictures, but someone, a great photographer to me is someone who can capture me. Not not their um uh I I don't know when you started, Jeff, but when I started, there was a a a couple of photographers in Hollywood who had their style, and one actually would um put his name, hand print his name to each uh photo. So you knew if you were getting his shot, but they weren't really selling the actor, they were selling the photographer. And so you need to get that photographer. I'm I'm gonna say it again, and I'm gonna keep saying this because it's so important. Get a photographer who can capture you and what you sell, but you gotta know what you sell. So that, and and if they give you pushback, you have to be able to advocate for you. So with with makeup, I you know, and I used to do this as well. You go to a counter and you say, Hey, I'm getting my makeup done, I'm getting my pictures done today. Can you take my, can you uh put my face together? And you pay, you know, like $75 or whatever, and and you could go to Mac or you could go to MUD. Certain places will do your makeup. That's great. But what happens when you get to the studio and you've been perspiring and you just and the makeup is not lasting the way you thought it would. And and as as we know in Hollywood, our weather is wacky. Sometimes it's so hot, sometimes it's cool, sometimes it's hot and cool, and and that affects your face. So it is important to get a makeup person. I and I'm gonna say this, and you've seen me do this, Jeff, where I hire a makeup person to do a run-through first. It's a little bit more money, but we get to collaborate before the shoot. So there because I have had makeup people sh uh come the day of the shoot and and do my makeup, and then I've left unhappy and I paid a lot of money. I and I'm you know, part of this uh part of this masterclass is to save you from wasting tons and tons of hundreds of dollars, thousands of dollars, when if you just follow uh what we're telling you, it's gonna save you so much. So I hire a photographer, I I hire a makeup person to come to my house a couple of days before. We work on my makeup, we we are both clear on what it is that's gonna work for me, and I take shots. So I look at it, it gives me a day to sit with it, and then the next, then when we go to shoot, I have that makeup person come to my house, prep me before we get to Jeff so that we are ready to take the first shot. So Jeff is not waiting for us, but we are ready to take the first shot. Is that true, Jeff? I mean, that is true. You did show up ready to rock. Uh, not everybody does that. I I give people a half hour to get their hair and makeup done um before a session and we start shooting. Usually that's plenty of time. And I I will go on, yes. Would I want everybody to get hair and makeup and wardrobe? Of course I would. I just know that it does get tight. Um, and I know my retouching is amazing. So I'm not not to brag, but I'm bragging. Um, but hair and makeup does other things too. It's not just about being glamorous, as you talked about, it's about fitting the character. There's different makeup from somebody who's um, you know, somebody who's living, you know, down in the dumps as opposed to somebody who is going out to brunch with her besties at the club. You know, it's so all of that plays into your characters as well. And and if you put together a makeup look or a wardrobe look and it doesn't suit you and it doesn't fit the character, it's gotta fit a character. Everything you do has to be towards a character because that's what's selling. You gotta be a character. Um, so hair makeup, yeah. If you can afford it and you should be able to afford it by saving up, do it. Wardrobe, do it. And that's the most important. And buy clothes that actually fit you. A lot of people are still wearing clothes that don't fit them anymore from 20 years ago. Get some clothes. And if you have to, return them after the shoot, but I didn't say that. Or you can go to really nice um uh reselling shops and find a couple of pieces that look spectacular on you. When I could not afford to go to a department store to get my clothes, I went to all these secondhand stores and found amazing clothes. Go outside of your area, go to other areas where it's middle income, middle class, because they're not robbing you like they do here in Hollywood. You know, they uh if you go to secondhand store here, they charge you more than you pay for new clothes. But if you go to some secondhand stores, I mean I would get great deals at secondhand stores. I got suits, I got nice dresses, I got, and that looked good on camera. And that's another thing. When you go shopping, take shots, take your friend who can take shots of you in the outfit so you can see kind of what it's gonna look on film or on on your camera. Not film, we don't use film anymore, but so that you can see what it looks like in a snapshot. That will also give you the information that you need to know this doesn't work good on camera. It looks good in person, but it doesn't look good on camera. You have mentioned prints, certain prints, uh, especially especially those little tiny checkers can uh distort the image. Like it, I don't know what you call it, but it's yeah, it it just, you know, so you have to be careful how the the pattern is. Um, pendleton shirts are always great, they look great on camera. So you want to be you want to be mindful of the wardrobe. Don't get wardrobe that you like, but it's not gonna work for the character, as Jeff was saying. The other thing I want to say about makeup is start with with um the least amount of makeup first. Have makeup because I've learned this too. Our eyes are really important. So you gotta make sure that you have enough makeup around the eyes so that um it reads what you're trying to say. Because Jeff, you're really big about not talking but saying it with your eyes. Yeah. And so it's gotta, you don't want your eyes to look tired, you don't want them to look sickly. So, you know, a good makeup person can put just enough makeup around your eyes to give them a pop without it looking like, oh my God, she's got so much makeup on. And and I would say this for the guys as well. You know, there's no shame in guys getting a little makeup because when you go on set, they're gonna put some makeup on you anyway. So you might as well get used to it. The other thing is with makeup, start light. So let's say you're playing a nurse or or someone who doesn't wear much makeup, that's where you should start. You know, I'm playing a nurse, so I'm not gonna have much makeup, but then I may move uh two times or three times, uh, you know, get get a little bit more applied for my, you know, going out with my friends, and then I may get a little bit more applied to go out with my boyfriend at the end of the evening, so that you now have not a, I don't want to say a plain look, but uh uh a working look. Then you have one with friends, then you have one where either you're going, maybe you're gonna go get an award, or maybe you're gonna go to a luxurious dinner with your boss that you can uh uh pump it up a little bit, you know, just just elevate yourself a little bit, but start with the light first because it's hard to start with the heavy makeup and then try to take it off. And it may sound simple, but I've I've gone through it. So I know that not everybody knows that. You know, you you have an idea in your head, yes, I want red lipstick. Well, then you start with a red lipstick, and now you are in trouble because to go from red to pale lips or very light lips is not gonna work, people. Just not. Anything else that you have to say about the process of uh of getting shot with makeup and and what you've seen in your time shooting? Honestly, I think I think we've covered it extensively. Um it's all part of the character. Um there's different makeup and different hairstyles that go with each of these characters. Um hair up, hair down, you know, heavy eyeliner, less eye. I mean, this is all about the characters. That's it. My thing is I don't want to do glamour shots. This is not about glamour shots. This is not about trying to make you look amazing. It's trying to make you look like you. So when you walk into that room, you look just like your headshots, which makes casting so happy. Yeah. Oh my God. Can you can you talk about that a little bit? How important it is to look like you. Look, uh, when it comes to the hair and makeup, this is what I always say. You don't have a hair and makeup person with you every single day. And if you do, can I live with you? Because you have a lot of money. You gotta be yourself, you know. You you have to be that same person that walks into the room and looks like that that image. Because there's a lot of people that come in and show me their old headshots, and they walk in, I'm like, you this doesn't look anything like they're like, yeah, that's why I'm here getting new shots. Um, the key is be yourself, look like yourself, look like your photos, so that makes casting happy and everybody's happy. Then you book and you get on set, and then you book more, and then get on set again, and then you book more and get on set. You know, it's a whole cycle. And I think I I think we need to stay here for a second because as you were talking, I was reminded uh when I started out that I would get that comment constantly from casting directors, and I didn't have a clue what they were saying. You don't look like your picture. You don't look like your picture. But what they really were saying is we wanted to see the person in the picture, and you're not it. And that and that is important. So you want to look as much like your picture. So when you come in, they feel relieved. They feel like they hit the jackpot because you nailed it in your shot. Yeah. So it that is really important. You can take glamorous shots just for you, but don't use them as headshots. Yeah. But you can take glamour shots, just not, you know, and I see actors do that. I've seen actors, you know, as they're working a little bit more or they they've they've identified themselves as a certain character, that um they will go on red carpet and look totally different because they want to break out of it. But it's important to understand that you're selling a product, if you sell ketchup, they're looking for ketchup. Don't come in looking like uh uh um like balsamic vinegar because that's not what they wanted. They wanted the ketchup, so you have to be real clear, you know, if you're gonna pivot, uh if you're gonna give them something different, that's another thing. Uh how many times have you had clients come in and take pictures with their hair a certain way, and then a month later you see their hair is has been cut, has been colored, has been um just a whole different program on them. Now that headshot that you took, or those headshots that you took no longer serves them. It's funny. I I mean I get that a lot, um, especially with guys with growing a beard and then not having a beard. Um, but that's why I offer a two-look 30-minute session to just kind of freshen up. Like if you got a new haircut and you just want to try it out, come in for those two looks, put them up because it it that new look may not work for you. So you may have to go back to what your old headshots look like. But for it's a really decent price to come on in and get two looks, that's a great way to just try it out. And it could be the new thing for you. You may look better clean-shaven than big fluffy beard guy. I I don't know. But or your hair colors change or you cut it real short. It's just a good chance you can always grow your hair longer again. It it's people want to change, and I'm here to accommodate them. And you do, you do a fantastic job. Okay, so now that we've talked about finding the photographer, prepping for the photo, now they're sitting in your seat. They've seen what the first shot looks like, and because you're really good about showing the actor what they look like in each setup. And you're really good also at correcting stuff. Like you may start with a backdrop and go, you know what? Let me try this. Let's try this. You're really good about taking care of the actor, which is something I appreciate because not everybody does what you do. So they're sitting in the chair or they're standing in front of the camera. What are some of the things that they should consider or think about? Or how should they make themselves comfortable if the photographer that they've chosen is not doing a good job at making them feel comfortable? Well, that that's tough because as actors, a lot of us, especially me, I am not great with confrontation. Um but like you've talked about, you've just spent a lot of money. You need to be able to say to them, look, I don't feel like this is great. I don't feel like this is working. Can we try something else? And if that photographer fights back, ouch. Um, I I can't imagine they would. But a lot of photographers feel like, I'm so good at this, I've been doing this so long, we're gonna do it my way, and that is it. Um, there are some that are out there. There are some that make people that are just so stiff and all they care about is the picture. They don't care about what the actor wants and stuff like that. It happens, but if you can take a second out and just say, I just feel like something's not working here. Maybe it's this, maybe it's that. But don't be afraid to say it because you spent a lot of money. And you know what? If the guy's being or whoever is being a jerk and not fun, have your own fun. Have your own fun. And just because I don't want you to have to be like what you did and had to go shoot with somebody else later and spend more money. Try to see if you can make it fun. As much as it hurts sometimes, have your own fun. Remember, camera, that lens, just keep everything down the barrel of the lens and put your own thought process into it and forget about that other person. Put yourself in your acting scenario that you want to be in. Um, if you're um a cop, you see that crook down the barrel of the lens. If you're a mom, you see your child graduating down the barrel of that lens. Just focus, take everything else away and just focus on the barrel of that lens and and and hopefully you'll be okay. So I'll give a couple of tips as an actor who has been in that position with photographers who didn't want to be flexible. Um, and I think I'm good at speaking up. Um so what I've learned is to you, like you said, use the lens. Use the lens, talk with my eyes. If I don't like what they're doing, then I'm gonna give a look. Like I don't like, but within what it is that I sell, I'm gonna talk to you with my eyes. I'm also gonna ridicule you and mock you with my eyes. So I know. So as an actor, use everything that's being put in front of you. Use the photographer like a bad um scene partner. Yeah, and you're gonna win. You you're gonna make choices that make you win. This is where you get to use your acting. This is where you get to shine, really shine, and say, you know what? I'm a F you. I don't really care. Um something else that I learned because when I didn't have money, I was looking for those photographers who needed a subject to work for their portfolio. So there was a woman who had a makeup studio uh where she was teaching people how to do makeup. And so they were always looking for subjects. So they would do your makeup, and then she would give you two headshots from each person who did your makeup. So the first time I went to her, it was horrible because she didn't even she didn't even let you get positioned and comfortable. And as actors, we always think, well, you know, I'm gonna shoot a lot, so I'm just gonna warm myself up. But she taught me there is no warm-up. You she would you would get in front of her camera and she would click it right away. So after the first uh time going to her, she turned me into a pro because I was like, oh, this woman is not gonna give me time. And so as soon as I have my makeup on, I knew in my head what I wanted. So I got in front of the camera ready. And I do that for the DMV. Well, you know, you have to take your photos at the DMV, and they always take these goofy pictures of you. Oh no, I go ready. I mean, I am I am I am prepping myself to get in front of that camera and just give them what it is I want to give them. And this is something for you to practice at home. What kind of shot do I want? Uh uh set up a Pinterest board or a Canva board where you're putting pictures that you think you might want a similar headshot, you know, or similar look or similar pose. And practice that because that will help you get into your character. Um, use your headshot like you do your character work and really come ready. Uh, don't leave it to chant. So when you tell the photographer, hey, uh, this isn't what I had in mind, you do know what you have in mind because a lot of times we we know instinctively it's not working, but we don't know how to verbally tell the photographer what they need to do. And the more preparation you can do for yourself, the better equipped uh you make the photographer. Uh and I do find that those more difficult photographers, if you can articulate what it is that you want, then you will get it because then it makes sense to them. But if you're like, well, you know, I don't I don't like how this looks, they're like, oh God, another one of those. They're not gonna listen to you. So you wanna, again, preparation, preparation, preparation. If you uh and and I am begging you, do not take pictures when you are not ready. I don't care if your agent said, Oh, we need them right away. Do not take pictures before you have done your preparation. Save yourself, actor. Save yourself. So, okay, now um they they're they know what they're doing, they've taken the headshot. What's the next process after the photo shoot? Well, for me, what I do is I put everything onto my uh OneDrive and Google Drive, and I'll send you a link and you download all those folders, I mean all those pictures to a folder on your computer, put it on a thumb drive, put it on a whatever, just so you always have them. How important is that to do that right away? Because uh it's important because it's yours. You know, it's it's it's your photos, those are important. And as a photographer, I only have so much space on my hard drive. So I I'm gonna take those off at some point. So you need to get those things downloaded as fast as you can so you have them. And then I give uh a link to a thing called Pixieset.com. Um it's not uh it's free. I'm not making any money off it, but it's what everybody kind of uses. You upload your photos to Pixieset, and then you can send a link from Pixieset to your agents, friends, managers, whatever, and they have their own little link and they can pick their favorites, and each one of them can send you their favorites in a little link, and you can see exactly what they what they picked. Um, after that, if you want headshots retouched, you send me the number of the picture that you want retouched, because I'll still have them hopefully on a hard drive somewhere in my little studio, and I will get to retouching. I try to get them done as fast as possible because I know how excited everybody is to get their pictures up and they want to do it as fast as possible. And I try to get your links to you as fast as possible. Um, uh usually the same day, um, maybe the next day if I have a lot of clients that one day, but um I want to get it to you fast because I want you to get them up on LA Casting, and I want you to start auditioning, and I want you to start booking. Those are the rules. Yeah, and you're really good at that. You're really good at getting it by the next day. Very good at that. Um also, uh, as you said, they have the link to send to their agents and their friends. Um, one of the things that I've learned is, and I learned this years ago, there was a casting director, turned entrepreneur who had classes for actors. His name was Sam Christensen, wonderful man. But he became the brand specialist, and his thing was get 20 people to look at your shots and then rate them. You know, one to five, one to ten, and then and and this is all mathematics. It's got nothing to do with feeling, but because uh the more people that go with one shot tells you a lot. And and that's important because we can't judge ourselves. Uh, we we have an image of how we look, but we need the public to say to us, this is the shot, this is the look. And so again, get 20 people to look at your headshot and then rate them. And then from that, you pick the top 10 of what the highest uh rated photos are, and then from that, give that to your agent so that your agent isn't overwhelmed by all these shots. Well, it's it really comes down to the agent. Some agents want everything, and some agents are like, oh, pick me your top 50, you know, um, because they don't want to have to do all the work. But it's hard on us to to pick anything because we're always gonna go for the glamour type shot or the shot that we like. When an agent sometimes will find a shot where you're just maybe have a little quirky look or a little something that just kind of stands out that we don't see because we don't look as beautiful in that shot. So talk to your agent first. But if you and if you don't have an agent, definitely do the the social branding type approach that that that Lydia has there to just to get a good idea and and and say, like, well, what does this character say to you? Or, you know, who is this this headshot? You know, who do you think this guy is? And then really kind of put those down together. And that's all goes back to who you are as a character and how you need to represent yourself. And I'm going to add to that regarding the agent, because a lot of times people get with agents, they don't build a relationship with agents, they sign with them, they don't call them, they don't check, they don't say anything, and they don't know what it is that they sell. And so the agent is selling pictures, is is is promoting headshots that really is not the actor. So I want to give that caveat because if your agent doesn't see you regularly, doesn't see your work regularly, doesn't know what it is that you sell, they're just taking a guesstimation of okay, uh, they're looking for somebody who's a cop. This picture looks like a cop. I'm gonna send it. And you don't play cops, you don't know how to play cops, you have no authority in your bone. That might not be good. So uh again, we want you to have a relationship with your agent. We want the agent to know exactly what you sell. And the more specific you can be with the agent when you give them your headshots, then they can make a better determination. But if you don't know what you sell and you just gave them headshots, because a lot of actors that I know have no clue what they sell, and they're expecting the agent or the manager to say, oh, this is what you sell. No, that's not how it works. And I I'm gonna, I am gonna push with that because that is something I've been doing for the last 40 years as an actor and helping actor friends and the last 10 years with Acting Smarter Now is um getting the actor clear on what they sell, not what the agent wants you to sell, but what is it that makes you shine when you come up in front of casting or you do that self-tape? What does it say about you? And if you're not an actor who has a lot of range, and this is not a slight on you, but some actors have just a couple of gears. Then there are other actors that maybe have 10 gears, so they can go from uh a victim to a victor, or they can go from Smarty Pants to the very conservative person like that. Not all actors can do that, so you have to know what your range is, and you have to know what it is that you sell, and you have to come with the goods. And that's why it's so important to know that before you take your headshots. I'm just gonna stress it. We want the agent to be our partner, but most of you don't even call your agent. You're waiting for the agent to call you. That's some bullshit. Stop it. This is a partnership, people. It's a partnership. Just like Jeff said, uh, you have a partnership with the photographer, but you have to know what it is that you want. You have to know what it is you're best at so you can be the best collaborator and have collaboration with the agent, the manager, the photographer, the makeup artist, the head head, uh, the hair person, the stylist. You know, you want longevity in this business. And if your headshot is not good, it's gonna deter you from a real career because you're gonna feel like I never get called in. I've not even booked. I I worked with an actor a few about a month and a half ago. I helped him with his branding. He's been acting 13 years and he still did not know what he sold. He he was all over the place, and he couldn't understand why he wasn't booking uh work. He might get one random job here, one random job there, but it wasn't enough to make a career. We want careers. We don't we want to be actors who book all the time, not any part, but the stuff that we are right for. You want to be so good at knowing what it is that you sell that when you go off for a part, you go, oh, this is mine. This is mine. Uh, the only way I don't get it is if I sabotage, but this has my name all over it. And and it's important for you as the actor to know that it's important for you to be able to advocate for yourself. If that if if you have an agent, and I know we're getting a little away from the the photos, but this is important because this also includes your headshot. You have to be able to advocate for yourself as an actor, you have to advocate for yourself with the agent, with the makeup person, with the hair person, with the uh photographer. You have to be able to say this doesn't work. And if you are the person who cannot, you you're not uh you're not able to confront. That's where I come in. I will help you. I will help you, I will be there for you, I will speak on your behalf, or find a friend who is not afraid to say that's not working. Uh, can you change that? You don't go to a headshot uh shoot ill-equipped where you're not you're not being taken care of. And if you don't know how to take care of yourself, take somebody who can take care of you. I would just wanted to add a couple things. Like, number one, um, when you look at a uh a headshot photographer's website or Instagram, that's what they do. Don't come in expecting something completely different. That's what they do. Don't come in and be like, well, this I want to be outside under you know the sun in rocks. No. This is what we do. If it's not what you want, go somewhere else. And number two, when you're talking about your agent, email your agent to let them know. One, getting headshots, what do you need for me? Number two, hey, guess what? I'm taking UCB right now. Um, I'm doing ground leads, I'm in an acting class. Let them know. I'm doing a play. It just shows to them that you're serious about your business. And then it always keeps them thinking about you. Oh, well, that person is doing this, and that person, oh, I should submit them for this. You know, there's a lot of times that happens. And just look, this is a business, everything is a collaboration. Agents are your partners, just like everything else. If they're not working for you, then you need to find something else. Or you need to sit with them and ask what they need from you because a lot of times actors are so quick to leave that agent when they never gave the agent the opportunity to be their partner. It's it's what you said. You gotta let them know hey, I'm in Ivana Chubbick's class, I'm I'm taking classes with Judy Kane for commercials. Is there anything that you think I should work on? Yeah. How about that? How about asking what their opinion is? Um, I'm I'm considering doing a play. I don't know yet what kind of play. Do you have any kind of ideas of what would be good for me to do? Whether they say yes or no, it really doesn't matter. Is that you're you're talking to them, you're texting them, you're emailing them, ask them what time is good to speak to them. Hey, listen, I'm really nervous. I'm getting ready to do this photo shoot. I'm I'm spending a little bit more money than I really wanted. So I would love your input any which way you can give it. Um, or I need to do a headshot session. I know you you need headshots. Can you give me like three headshot looks that I should be going for? Really lean into the the agent or the manager. You know, if you have a manager, I would I would be as bold as to say, make your manager come with you to the edge to the photo shoot. You know, utilize them. The agent's not coming with you, but utilize what you have. Really take advantage of it. You know, a lot of times um uh you know, you're submitting headshots for this and that, and you're not even right for that. You're just you're just praying somebody is gonna call you in. And that is the worst thing you can do for yourself because then people start going, oh, this person doesn't even know the business. They don't even know what they're doing. They just I keep getting pictures from them. Be specific. It goes back to what Jeff was saying earlier. The more specific your headshot is for certain roles, certain type, the better it is for you. Going back to we all want to be that leading person, you want not, I don't want to say you want the truth, but you want to be able to make money in this business. Yeah. And so if this is how you look like right now, how can you make money by looking like that? And then have a game plan. Maybe within a year, you want to change that look. You know, when I started out, I probably changed every three years what it was I was going for. The first thing, if you're starting out as an actor, what's the low-hanging fruit? Commercials are low-hanging fruit. So uh Jeff takes amazing commercial headshots because he makes it so fun that you're just joyful. You're just it sometimes it's a little hard taking a serious shot with Jeff because he just has such a happy face and you just you just want to smile. But that uh I would say to you, um, commercial headshots start with that so that you can get in the door. So it'll get you an agent quicker. Because with commercial shots and commercial agents, it's not about quality, it's about quantity. And so, how do you get in? That's the easiest way. That's the low-hanging fruit. And if you're a serious actor, you're theatrical, and you do a lot of plays, niche down because when you are a stage actor, you're broad, you you think more broad. I could do Hamlet, and then I could do uh three men in a baby or whatever. But we gotta niche down when we're doing film and television. We gotta be very specific. And again, that's where the the photograph, that headshot is important. And make sure it's a headshot. Can you talk about the the size of the headshot? Shot versus a mid shot versus a full body shot. Honestly, with acting, you're almost never gonna have a full body shot with acting. Never, unless you're like a dancer or you know an athletic person or one of those type things. But even with that, uh waist up, get your muscles on the camera, and you're you're fine. Um but when you you could have a further out shot, like waist up type shot, but on on all the little acting websites, you're just gonna put a little thumbnail up. And it's mostly just gonna be your head. So you've got this little little bit of space to do all the talking. That's why when you put on some wardrobe, you're gonna get a little hint of what that character is, and that could be enough. And then it's the eyes, it's the attitude that you may have, you know, when we captured that shot. It's just a little bit of space. Um, most casting directors will only stick with that little thumbnail. Some of them they'll click it, open it up, and see the full size of you. But that's why I always shoot different stuff. Like theatrical, I love to be in nice and tight. I just because I really just want to capture the actor and the subtlety. Um, and commercials these days are not all about look at me, how great I am. It's kind of going the same way. They want real people. Um, so less is more, a good little smile is enough sometimes. You don't always have to have teeth in your in your smile shots. Um, so it's it's really as we talked about, Lydia before, it's in the barrel of the lens, it's your pet, it's the person you love, it's the person you hate, it's you know, all those things. If you can see it in that lens, you'll the camera will capture it. And my big thing is just trying to find that little moment. That little moment where we're gonna capture something, even if it's I'll have you do something like, oh, I'm buttoning my jacket. Now look up at me. Click, because in that second, you're not thinking about I'm about to take a headshot. You're thinking, well, Jeff told me to button my jacket, and now he's asking me to look at him. What does he want? You know, you're not thinking about anything. Boom. And we capture something real and genuine in that moment. It's that's why it's about playing. That is a wonderful technique that you have when you're working with the actors, and I I so appreciate that because it gets you out of your head. You really are good at getting us not to focus on the lens, but to focus on other things, which reads on camera, going back to the eyes. Something you know that that I've heard you say in in the photo shoot is, you know, put it in your eyes, put it in your eyes. Um, and I don't think we can get enough of that because as you said, it is a very, very tight shot. Yeah and it's about the eyes. And when you're taking um, when you're looking at the the photographs, once you've taken the pictures, actor, um put your hand over the face and just look at the eyes. Are the eyes talking to you? Are they dead? If they're dead, that picture is dead. The eyes have to say something, they have to pop. They have to uh do they look scared? Do they look happy? Do they look like they're gonna beat you up? The eyes tell us everything, and so you gotta bring that in the camera. Something I learned early on was to wiggle my toes. Um, uh, and that makes the eyes pop because you're doing something nobody knows, and it just kind of brightens you up. Also, close your eyes, count to three, and then you know, in your head, one, two, three, and then open your eyes so they're fresh again. Um, that again, the eyes tell everything. And so you have to find little tricks that works for you. Jeff is a a master manipulator when it comes to getting you to say stuff with your eyes, but not every photographer is gonna be like that. But Jeff is Jeff is really good at it. He will go, oh yeah, what? And then and then all of a sudden it like it like it like snaps you into what? What did he just say? And and I will say when you take headshots, you know the photographer is really good if you have what I call more than three money shots, meaning you can use that picture for almost anything and it will work, you know, uh because something in in the face gets us to believe, oh, they could be the teller, oh, they could be the the worker at the at the store, they could be the person who is the receptionist at the um at the ER. So it's really important. Um uh and I and I will tell you that with Jeff, I got a lot of money shots. I've I've brought other actors to Jeff and they have gotten money shots. We have one woman that came to Jeff, Elizabeth, and she was a person who did a selfie and was putting it out there on her um casting network uh uh or her casting platforms, and it was night and day. What she started with and what Jeff did with her was amazing, and she's a wonderful actress. It had nothing to do with her acting ability, it just had to do with the packaging, and that's what uh your headshot is. It's your package. It it says hire me, or it says, not today. So you have to decide how you're gonna do it. Um, I'm gonna give you the last word on on headshot. Headshots number one, as I always say, um, think it, don't speak it. Um, and the reason why is if you're speaking it like, I'm gonna get you, I'm gonna get you, I'm gonna capture you going instead of you know, intention in the face. Um number one, do your homework, come prepared, let's have fun. You did your work. We know what we want to do. Now let's have fun. And just listen and be present and allow me to guide you. And sometimes you just guide yourself. Some people are just boom, they're natural. Some people, it takes a little time to warm up. It's okay. We'll get you there. We'll get you there. Just relax. Don't be uptight. Don't be uptight. I don't want to work with somebody who's uptight. Let's have fun. You know, if we're all having fun, we're gonna get some great shots. And just because we're having fun doesn't mean you can't get a serious shot. Um, it's gonna allow you to know that I can go to places that are a little more tough or a little more, you know, a little uh more sad. And then we'll bring it back and have fun. But if you're ready to play and have fun, we're gonna get great shots. We just are. So that's the big thing. Prepare. And then once you get here, let's have fun. And not just here, any place you go to, any place you're getting headshots, look at their work, try to see if you can talk to them or email them, whatever. Talk to other people who may have worked with them, and then do your work and then come in and just have fun. You gotta have fun no matter where you are, because you're gonna get real shots of you. Something you do uh that I just thought of that is so important. Um, when I booked my first um shoot with you, you asked me a lot of questions over a few days. You were like, So, what's this shoot for? What are you looking to get? Uh, what kind of pictures do you want? And I found it so helpful, even though I knew what I wanted. I had my list. I'm really good at putting my list together of we're gonna go for this, we're gonna go for this. But um, you do something that not a lot of photographers do. They they you book with them and then you go in. And so um, something for the actor to know is what are the shots you need, write them down, take take little selfies to say, I want something like this, or or have your Pinterest board, bring that in and share it with the photographer. If you can give it to them before, Jeff will ask you for stuff. So um, you can just give it to them. But the more equipped, going back to that collaboration, the more you can give the photographer before you come in, the better it's going to be for you to say, I'm looking for this, I'm looking for this, I'm looking for this. So with Jeff, I came, I said, I want this, this, this, and this. And he said, Well, I can give you this, this, and this, but not that. And so I knew, I knew going in the parameters of what I could go for. Because he, you know, I wanted a full body shot. He said, I don't have space for that. I don't, I was like, okay, that's good to know. Then I'm I'm taking that out of my list. And it's not a bad thing or a good thing, but it's it's something to inform you. So you're not wasting time on, well, I'm gonna bring these outfits because I want this look. No, that's not available. Or going back to what uh Jeff said, I want to say it again so that actors really understand. If you want headshots that are that are natural, that are outside, that's the photographer you need to find. If you want inside shots, that's the photographer you need to find. If you want someone who does lifestyle, that's the photographer you want to find. They don't do headshots. And so there are very few photographers out there who will cover all of it. Um, but for the most part, everybody has their niche as well. You know, you have photographers who cover very dramatic headshots, some who cover very animated commercial shots, and some who are in between who can do both, but they have their own way of their own process. So you have to know that. And I just want you to know, Jeff, how much I appreciate how you take the actor to through the process of headshots before they even get to you. Because most photographers are not gonna have the type of email back and forth that you do. They don't. I'm gonna tell you, they don't. I think why I do that, and I ask a lot of questions. Number one is really to force the actor to think about what they really do want out of this session. Sometimes people are like, oh, I just want to get a couple looks, but they don't know what couple what that couple looks is. And to me, a lot of times it's just a waste of time because I don't know what they really want, and they don't know what they really want. Um, we'll get some good shots, but they may not be specific to something they want, um, to or something their agent needs. Um, so I I I try to ask to just find out what what's going through your head. So then I can also try to remember, I can also go back to your email, and I'll sometimes I'll have the emails up when people send me like looks and stuff like that to be like, well, did we get this person? Did we get this character? You know, I want to make sure because when you get here, sometimes you get stuff you weren't even expecting. Because I'll be like, oh, wait a second, put that on. Yeah, let's try that. And boom, all of a sudden it's like, whoa, this is I wasn't expecting this, and you get something great. So that's another reason to bring extra wardrobe and to not be so rigid. We'll get what you want, but sometimes we get something special that you didn't even know about. Yes, and and yes, and yes, and yes. I'll I'll say yes to all of that because that is what you get when you book with Jeff. So if you are interested in shooting with Jeff, go to headshotsbyff.com. Headshotsbyff.com. And you can also find him on Instagram, which is how I found Jeff, because I saw him do an incredible photo shoot with a friend of mine. And I was like, oh my God, whoever took these pictures needs to take my shots. And that's that's the that's the gift of a really good photographer, is that when you see a friend or you see somebody else with a certain headshot, you go, oh my God, these are great. I'm gonna reach out to this person. So that's another way for you to find a headshot photographer is to look and see what kind of shots your friends have because you know them. You know what they look like. So if they look like themselves in the pictures, that's the person you want to go for. So um I adore you, Jeff. I I I think you are such a um such a gift to actors. As an actor, you really show up for the other actors. You really are generous and kind. And I just want to say that. And um, before we leave, I want to ask you a couple of questions about yourself. Now that we've covered, now that we've covered the masterclass of headshots, what kind of technique, acting-wise, do you draw from as an actor? You know, uh, it's surprising. I I'm always I'm comedy guy through and through. Um, I started off doing stand-up, I was terrible at it, and then found this thing. Yeah, yeah, not like you. Um, I found this thing called uh improv. And I was like, what's improv? And then this guy's like, I'm in the groundlings, and a lot of people on SNL are in the ground lens. I'm like, I'm doing the groundlings. So I just started doing the groundlings. I was doing groundlings back when I was doing an in-between class, and Jimmy Fallon was in it just before he got SNL. So I was around all those people, and I'm like, I'll be in SNL in two years. Um, that didn't happen, but it didn't stop me from going and going and going. I love comedy because I love making people laugh. I mean, that's something I've been able to do really well my whole life. And so that's where I stick with it. So when it comes to acting, find who do you want to bring drama to somebody? Do you want to make somebody feel something? Then you're you're that person. Do you want to make somebody laugh? Then you're that person. Do you just want to be somebody who makes a living? Then be the person who makes a living. Just start believing what you are and what you're capable of and just do it. There's so many people that are not very talented, but they work all the time because they know deep in their heart that they should be working all the time. So take that time, visualize it every day, see that success. I used to drive and just see myself on set. I could see my makeup person coming up to me, the the guy who's measuring the distance of the thing. And the, you know, I used to just see that over and over and over and over in my head and do that. Visualization is just a huge thing. Um, keep training, keep training, keep training. Uh, professional athletes still get coached and still get trained on all the basics because they're keeping themselves at the top level. And have fun. This is a roller coaster ride, so strap yourself in and just know that there's going to be ups and downs. But the ups are the biggest ups in the whole world. It's the greatest thing. How has improv helped your career? I think it's the the greatest thing any actor can do, comedy or not, because improv allows you to listen. The most important thing is listening. Like I could say, I love you, and that will get a different reaction out of you. Or I could say, Yeah, I love you, and that gets a different reaction out of you. Same words, just a different way of saying. But if you don't stop and listen to how I said that, you're gonna, you're not gonna come with the right attitude back. So, improv, the most important thing was listening and being able to react because you've listened and really heard what the person said. That's why I feel like improv is the greatest thing you can do, and it's not just for comedy. And how has mindset helped you? Because you you were just talking about visualization, and that's part of mindset. How important has your mindset been for you to sustain your career as long as you have? Mindset is the is the only thing in a weird way. Along with all the work, and trust me, I fight this mindset a lot. But when you believe in yourself and you believe you deserve to make it and you do the work behind it, it's it's more than just a belief. You have to be ready to act. You have to be, oh my God, kid, come be on this set. Okay, great. I'm ready. But if, okay, kid, come on be on the set. Oh, I burr, I don't know, you know, be ready. And that's ready is through training, ready is through belief, ready is through confidence, and ready is to be open to any positive thing. You know, it's not always all positive. And you got to know that you'll make it through that. A lot of times, I could come up to a little tiny speed bump and just turn around and run away instead of just knowing if I just stepped over, I could have had success. And that kicked my butt a lot of times. A lot of times. You just said something that I want to park the car at for a second. And uh with visualization. Um, with visualization and doing the work. And that's something that we don't hear enough of because people say, oh, just visualize, but it's visualization plus doing the work. That's where the power is. Uh there's a there's a scripture in the Bible that says that faith comes by hearing, but it also says faith without works is dead. So we have to have faith because the mindset is about faith, right? As actors, we walk by faith. Whether you are religious or not, you're you have a belief. You believe that this is gonna happen. That's faith. You know, you bring you take a script and you create a character, you're doing that by faith. You're you're believing you can make a character out of what you read. But with that, that belief, and then applying the technique, applying the work, showing up and practicing, going to classes and practicing, that is where it connects, and then stuff happens. Because I'm a big believer in visualization, I'm a big believer in having your vision boards and writing out your goals. You you you can't say nothing to me. I know how to do that, but I also know that it's about the work, that when I do the work and I visualize it and I think about it, and I'm like, okay, I I you know, I writing a book and I'm selling it to the masses, and but I had to complete the book. Yeah, you know, oh, I want to be this type of actress, but I got to take the classes. If I want to be good at comedy, uh how what is the road I'm gonna take? That's part of the process. Will I will I do stand-up? Will I do improv? Will I do physical comedy? Is there a physical comedy class I can take? Because I think I'm like Lucio Ball or Carol Burnett. You have to, you have to put in the time. So I I I really appreciate you mentioning that because you know, we hear actors talk about I visualized, and there it was. Yeah, I visualized it, but I also did the work, man. Let me tell you. And and I I got through those hard bumps because sometimes it may seem like it's uh it's nothing, but for you, it's everything. It's like, oh my god, I can't get an agent. And you're like, all right, well, maybe look for a different agent. Maybe that's not the agent that is the right fit for you. Instead of panicking about I can't get an agent, um, look for other agents. Figure out who needs what you have instead of just uh being uh blind and just, you know, I submitted to 10 agents. Yes, but those 10 agents have people that are in direct competition with you. So the act the agent is not gonna pick you. Do your homework, do your do what you need to do. So I I really do appreciate what you're saying about being ready, being ready, how important it is, and and the mindset of knowing that you deserve something. And even if you don't think you deserve it, you should just say, I'm gonna get it because that's gonna happen. Period. I don't have to deserve it, I'm just gonna get it. You know, I don't have to, I'm gonna get it because I do my work, I show up, I'm a hard worker. That's you know, because some people are really skilled and great, but they don't have that uh belief that they deserve. So they sabotage themselves, right? So we don't want, we don't want you to get hung up on whether you feel like you deserve it or not. Let's let's take that out of the equation. Just I'm doing the work. That's the fact. And I'm visualizing it. Those are two things that you can do. And I will say that if you don't have an agent and you get good headshots, self-submit on all these things. Self-submit. Even if you don't book it, but if you can get an audition, that audition is training. You're training how to audition. Because I remember when I first started out, I would take all these commercial classes, but as soon as I walked into an office and actually got into a room and it's just me, it's a little scary. And you get really nervous. And guess what? You'll get better. You'll get better. Not everybody steps out and they're like, I'm a great actor. I'm booking movies. And no. It takes time. This is not a sprint. It's not a sprint. Don't come out here and be like, I'm giving it six months. You know, I moved here from Virginia in '97, knowing nothing. Nothing. But I knew I wanted to just try. And I didn't put a time frame on it. And it's a good thing I didn't because, you know, it's a roller coaster. Come out wherever you are, know that it takes work, have fun. And and and gosh darn it, you could make a living out of this stuff. You can. You can. If I can, anybody can, that's for sure. And see the adventure, right? It's an adventure. You're doing something people wish they could be doing. There's so many people that wish they could be an actor. So many people out there who go, Oh, I would love to do that. But you're doing it. So that's got to give you uh some incentive to keep going, to say, yeah, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. So I'm gonna do it. And and don't let the nose stop you. You know, and if your headshot isn't working, evaluate. You know, evaluate, well, maybe this isn't what people are going for, or uh uh it's not clear enough, you know, really um separate yourself from the headshot and look, if I were a casting director, would I hire this person? That's always a great way to know if it is a good headshot. If I were, you know, what does this person say in this headshot? Look at the headshot and go, what does this what does this person sell? Do they sell tuna fish or do they sell salmon? Or do they are they in the clearance bin? I don't want anybody in the clearance bin. You don't want to be in the clearance bin. And sometimes we take headshots that put us in the clearance bin. So we're not gonna get quality interviews, we're gonna get clearance bin auditions, and and they're not gonna treat us well. The more you know what it is that you sell, the better you will get treated, and the better um auditions and self-tapes you will be asked to do. So um the the big thing with acting is not I want to be rich, I want to be wealthy. The big thing with acting is what is it that I bring that nobody else brings? How can I uh service this production? If you come thinking I have something to give that people want to buy, that puts you in a better position. If you come going, this is my lotto ticket, you know how many people buy lotto tickets and never even get a dollar from it? We don't want to have that kind of attitude. We want to be able to go, I I do this, this is what I do, this is what I'm good at, and I'm gonna sell you this. Go to the supermarket, go to a Trader Joe's, go to uh Whole Foods, and look at their products. Look how they package everything. Everything is packaged in a certain way. You, as the actor, must package yourself in a certain way, and that's what the headshot does. It packages you. And so if you have a bland headshot, guess what? Nobody's gonna call you in. It's gotta be specific, it's gotta pop it going back to what Jeff was saying. It's what uh uh two by two? Is that not even, not even maybe, maybe two by two or an inch and a half by two and a half. It's it's small, and they're scrolling real quick. You know how you scroll on your social media? Well, they're scrolling probably a little faster than that, so it's gotta it's gotta get their attention quickly. So take everything that Jeff has said, get prepared for your headshots, and please, actor, do not be stingy and do not think poverty. You know, most actors are always thinking poverty. I can't afford it, I can't afford it. Well, then you can't afford to be an actor because it costs to be an actor. It costs money to be an actor, it costs money to train, it costs money to get headshots, it costs money to pay for gas to get to the callback or get to the audition or get to the meeting. It costs money. I if you were starting a business, you would have to have an investment of money to be able to pour into your business. So think of acting as a startup. When you're starting it's a startup, so you have to have money to start that business. You as an actor are the business. So you've got to take uh time to invest in your headshots. I'm tired of actors saying I don't have any money. Then get out of acting. Go find something that will give you the money to support your career until you can start making money as an actor. That's what all actors do. Most actors, maybe uh one less than 1%, come ready and start booking work and whatever. And if you're one of those people, yay, but 99% are not. So you have to think the first three years, you should have money coming in from other sources to pay for your your tuition and classes, to pay for your uh shelter, your uh rent, your food, your clothes, for all of that to take care of you on your pursuit to acting. Because it's gonna take you anywhere between one to three years to really get not just the lay of the land, but to really understand what it is that you sell because you're taking classes that are informing you where your niche is. We want you to win. But if you set yourself up for failure and you keep seeing poverty and you buy the line that you know, actors never make money or acting is a poor person's sport, uh, you're in trouble. You are in trouble. Get out of the business. You have to invest. Invest in really good headshots, people. I'm telling you, it will it will bless you like nothing else. When you take a great headshot, I'm gonna say this about a really great headshot. I took a headshot years ago that served me for seven years. It looked like me for seven years. I had not changed, I used that headshot. It got me into so many places because it represented me and I invested in it. I invested in the photographer, I invested in the uh hair and makeup person, I invested. You have to invest. I'm tired of hearing actors can't afford anything. That is some BS. So take that out of your out of your mouth. Out of your mouth. You are rich in in creativity, you are rich in finances. Just let it come. Visualize it, do the work for it, and you'll get it. Thank you, Jeff. Thank you, Jeff. Thank you. Thank you for having me. This is so much fun. Sorry that I I I had pushback on you, but I want to give the actors uh uh um balance, you know, to see different things, to see, hey, let me look at this, let me look at this. The more, the more informed the actor is, the better it is for everybody. We all have our own journeys and our own paths. My way is not the right way for you. Your way is not, you know, so but what we're trying to do, and I know you're on the same page as me, we're trying to save you money by going in the right direction. I remember when I first moved here, you look at the actor paper, I forgot what it was at the time, it's still going on. It's just all just an ad, how to take your money. And I'm just like, what do I do? I have no clue. And because I didn't really know anybody in the acting world. And then I started, oh, oh, groundlings, okay. And then you start getting in that little community of actors, then you start following the right path instead of going with an agent that's like, nope, you can only use this headshot photographer. Never do that. Never do that. Because that headshot photographer is may not be right for you and definitely probably doesn't have your best interest in mind. When I first moved out here, I didn't know anybody. Well, I knew one person, but he wasn't an actor. He was a pro-athlet. And so I didn't know what to do. But luckily, from that pro-athlete, I met an agent because they saw him and liked him. And then it kind of just steamrolled. But when you come out here and you don't know anybody, don't know anything, get into an acting community, a reputable one, like a good reputable acting class or groundlings or UCB, those are reputable. And then you start forming your own community and start coming up with people that are like-minded that want to succeed just like you. So, again, if I can do this, so can you. No problem. Yeah, and that's important to know that when you're coming into a new community, um, uh uh be it Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, Miami, start looking for the reputable places, be they uh classes, be they workshops, even going to restaurants or coffee houses or churches or synagogues where the the entertainment community is. And that's something you can find again. I'm gonna I'm gonna promote AI on this, is like type in, you know, where where do actors go in Los Angeles? What are the top acting uh studios in Los Angeles or whatever city or town you're in? What are the best um what are the best places uh for acting workshops? So that gives you an insight into, oh, let me start with them. You know, you you may, it may not be the best place, but it's a place where you start to get information. You meet an actor who can tell you about this other thing that's happening, and that's how you create your community, right? That's how you find stuff, and you gotta get out of your comfort zone. You gotta be willing to go places and meet different people. And if the first place doesn't work, no problem. You're on an adventure, you're gonna go find another place. It's it's you're gonna keep going until you start finding people. And as an actor, we're always on an adventure, we're always looking for that place. I'm I'm 66 years old. I've been here since I was 18. And and like Jeff, when I came out here, I didn't know anybody. I did not know anybody. I did not have uh I didn't know actors out here. I opened up back then we had the yellow phone book, a big ass phone book that I opened up and looked under acting, and I saw a big ad that said acting school. I thought that was it. So I I went to that school. It wasn't it, but it led me to get information about community, about other acting places, who was good, who wasn't good. I got my first um uh background job through that acting school. And then from that, I was able to get another background job, which led me to get my after card. And then from that, I was able to get an agent. Things that it happens, it just happens not overnight. It take, it took me, I would say it took me about eight months to kind of get my my bearings to figure out, you know, what what was happening. I didn't know everything, but at least it gave me insight on certain things. And then I was able to get an agent. And then from that I got my SAG card before it was SAG AFTRA. Um, but it takes time and uh coming to a new place by yourself and not knowing anybody, it's a little easier today than it was when we started because you have the internet, you have a cell phone, you can Google stuff, you can ask, what are the worst places for actors in Los Angeles? What where should I stay away from? Uh, something I learned about AI the other day that I love is like give AI a complaint. Go to Chat GPT and give it a complaint. Say, oh my God, this is terrible. I just landed in Los Angeles and I don't know anybody, and I don't know the first steps to take for my acting career, and it will give you information. It is amazing. We have so much um uh stuff to help us today that Jeff and I didn't have back when we started. Actually, I came out here. Um, I bought a book called My First Year in Hollywood. And the book was like places to live, classes to take, you know, all about this stuff. And that it kind of really helped to kind of guide me on where to find places. And but also I will I just want to say this real quick: you talked about background work. Do not think that start off doing some background work because number one, you're gonna get on set. And when you get on set, you see how everything works. And then if you're like on a sitcom or in a movie in a smaller environment, you get to see the actor's work. And that is the biggest lesson you will ever have is watching a pro do their work. And so never discount that, but take it seriously. Do not be that actor, that background actor that just shows up and does the bare minimum. Pay attention to what they're saying. Um, and if when your scene comes, have something, a fake conversation. If you're having a conversation, you know, have that conversation. Take it seriously. Take every step of this seriously. Because the more serious you take it, the more serious other people are gonna take you. Um and you'll just carry that for the rest of your career. I want you to succeed. Lydia wants you to succeed. We all want you to succeed, but it takes work. And I would say this about background work. Just like Jeff said, in acting, it's about listening. It's the same thing in background work. You may not be treated well as a background actor. Do not take it personal. That's just how it is. Your job is just to come in, learn the lay of the land. How does a set run? How do they um how you know, once you know, get there early. If your call time is at 10, get there at 9:30. If you know, it is your it's an opportunity for you to learn firsthand how to do what it is you want to do. Watch the actors, listen to the notes that the directors are giving the the lead actors or the union actors, listen to it. Um don't spend your time gossiping with the other background actors. Have a little notebook. I learned this from uh a background actor. Um, have a little notebook that you're writing stuff down in because you are looking to up level, you're looking to do better. So if you start, oh, who was the director who just shot this? Let me write their name down. I'm gonna follow them on Instagram or social media. I'm gonna write them a little note and say thank you. Hi, uh, hi, uh, Jeff. Jeff, my name is Lydia Nicole. I was on your set the other day as a background actor, and I learned so much. Thank you so much. You were so kind, not only to the actors, but I saw how kind you were to us. So I just wanted to say thank you, and I look forward to working with you in the future. You are now starting to build relationships. Don't think as a, you know, you're what I learned, and I can only tell you from what I learned, I did background work for six months. That was my mission. I'm gonna do it for six months, I'm gonna get on as many sets as I can, I'm gonna learn as much as I can, and then after six months, I'm gonna start uh submitting for um lines. And that's what I did. And in those six months, I learned a lot. And then after the six months, it was over. In Hollywood, um, doing background work for a little while is good. But if you do it too long, then you become known as that. And then it becomes hard. In Hollywood, we have a caste system, it's not the same in New York, it's not the same in Chicago, it's not the same in Miami, but in Hollywood, let me tell you, there's a caste system. So you want to do the background work, but you want to do it only for a little while. You don't want people to get to know you as a background actor. You want to do it so you can kind of spy and go, oh, this is how they do sitcoms, this is how they do commercials, this is how they do uh uh episodics, and then move on. Then it's like, okay, I'm gonna take a work, I'm gonna take a job working at Whole Foods or wherever, or drive Uber, and I'm gonna start submitting for lines. I'm gonna start submitting for the feature player, the day player. That's where I'm gonna start. And then just start putting it out there. Uh sign up for uh to audition for plays, get in a play. That's how you meet other actors and they tell you what's going on. Find a community. And if you're an actor of color, we are a small community. I mean, acting is small anyway, but if you're Asian, if you're black, if you're Latino, there are different little communities and they're small. There's not a lot of us. So you get in, you get in quicker than a white actor. As much as we complain about there's not a lot of jobs, there may not be a lot of jobs, but there are a lot of opportunities, more for us than if you are blonde and blue-eyed. Uh you got a lot of competition. So you really gotta be so specific. But if you are of color, it's not as bad. And people don't say this, and I hear you know, the complaints, but I'm telling you, if you come prepared, you are gonna work. So, all right, I'm getting off my soapbox, and I just I'm done. Well, I just wanted to say about taking things seriously. Um, uh, I did a lot of stand-in work. Um uh I did a lot on the Drew Carey show. And when you're doing it on a sitcom, stand-in work, they want you to know the lines because you may have to act them during run-throughs and stuff when a certain actor can't be there. Well, okay, I do that and I've learned, I'm good at it, all that stuff. And I go to a theatrical, an episodic show to help out a second AD friend of mine. And I'm like studying the lines, and the other stand-ins are like, what are you doing? You're never gonna have to do that. I'm like, well, it's just what we do anyway, just in case. Because mostly in theatrical stuff, they're just like, stand here, look there, that's it. Well, the actor that I was standing in for had to leave, and I had to do scenes with Gabrielle Union because she needed somebody to act with. And I was that person. They filmed it, her side, not me. But I got to act with her and give her acting choices and all that stuff. So if you stay prepared and go above and beyond, you never know what can come your way. It's always about being ready and prepared. That is so good. I like that. That's a good tip. I like that. You know, we don't talk about that part of the stand-ins, right? And and how much they do have opportunities if they're ready. Because again, if you take it as a it's not an important job, you miss out on the opportunity. Thank you again for this opportunity, for being able to talk to everybody, and thank you for your passion for for acting and the actors just as well, because it uh it's a tough business that we're in. And the more people you can find that will help each other because this is a community, the more people will succeed. Oh my goodness, wasn't that fire? Oh, so much great information. Let me tell you. I wish I had somebody tell me all of this when I started taking pictures. It would have saved me so much money, so much time, and so much heartache. I want you to re-watch this video over and over again so you can get all the information that we gave you. Make sure you get all the meat off the bones on this one because this one was fire. And I would love to know your thoughts in the comments below. Like what stood out for you? Or tell me a story of you getting your headshots and how that experience was. Or if you watch this and said, Man, I need Jeff to take my headshots, because that's how I felt when I saw his photos. I was like, oh my God, I need Jeff to take my headshots. And if you've been watching this channel for a while and you haven't subscribed, do it now. I need you to subscribe. I also need you to share this video because this video is fire for every actor, no matter what age they are. This is the one that every actor needs to watch. So share it, give it to friends, and don't go anywhere because I got another great interview filled with great information to help you with your career right now.