SPEAKER_00 0:58

What is feminism?

SPEAKER_01 1:01

For me, feminism is the co equal status that women have with men, with all the privileges that a society offers, that a republic offers, and that a democracy uh puts in place through its laws and its legislative actions that guide us. So for me, feminism is being authentic, is being um as um interesting as men can be, because men have a private persona and a public persona. And I think that women don't realize that they have that flexibility too. I mean, I have often um been told that I'm dangerous because most people try to uh size you up immediately by the way you're dressed, the way you present yourself, which is part of a you know um uh from your uh creative background, Lydia, that presentation is critically important. And presentation uh tends to uh uh really signal to everyone what your politics may be, what your lifestyle may be, et cetera, et cetera. So being a feminist for me is uh having co-equal status in this society, and that includes being able to be authentic, to be glamorous if I choose to, uh, not to be glamorous if I choose to, but always when I come to the table to have my uh capabilities um front and center, my skill sets uh front and center, and my ability to communicate front and center.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

What made you, or or actually a better question is when did you wake up to notice the inequality between men and women?

SPEAKER_01 2:54

It was um quite candidly not until very late in life, because uh Hal Jackson, my wonderful father, the one of the first black broadcasters in this country, 1935, and my mother Julia, uh, who was a a very uh critically important person in both Hal's life and my life, and that um I was always protected from racism in Washington, D.C. I did not know until I moved to New York City in 1955 that there were racial issues because my mother and grandmother made sure that we knew that it was not good etiquette or grooming to use a public bathroom. Therefore, I didn't know that there were colored bathrooms and white bathrooms, that you never drank from a water fountain because that was just design it was not something you did, and you did not sit at the counter at uh a five and dime for a hot dog because you know, young women uh of a certain class did not sit at bars or anything like that. So I was sheltered from racism by design, which is a part of the silent generation's um practices. Uh, most middle class and upper middle class African Americans that were born, I'm a early baby boomer, but my mother and father are from the silent generation. And that generation of African Americans knew that they had to uh protect us from racism. Now, sexism, I didn't even know it existed because my father had me when I was five years old sitting on his lap, flying, you know, first class from Washington, D.C. to New York. There were no other blacks on the plane. I didn't realize that there were no other blacks because I didn't see any different. And when we went to the theater in Washington, D.C., because Hal had such status, we sat downstairs with uh, you know, it it we we didn't sit in the mezzanine or or any of the uh areas that were roped off just for blacks. So the the issue of inequality related to women, I did not experience because even when we moved to New York and I had the privilege of of uh auditioning uh at as a dance major at the High School of Performing Arts, the majority of the students at Performing Arts High School, you know, with our dance and our drama and our music, were women. And so we had uh, and you know, the the uh head of um, ironically, her name was Dr. Dyke, the head of the dance department at the High School of Performing Arts in 1963 was a woman. And the majority of the the uh Graham trained um or Catherine Dunham trained uh uh teachers were women, even though we did have, I had the privilege of having Donald McHale as a as a who was just brilliant as a choreographer, as a teacher, as an inspir inspiration. But um I started to know more about the the issues around sexism because of my mother's very smart group that she was a part of, which became the hundred black women. And they were Republican and they were Democrat and they were the wives of prominent men in New York, and it was 24 women. My mother was one of them, and their issues were about equity for women, um, specifically on the heels of the civil, the modern civil rights movement in the 60s, you know, white women in New York, in particular, and women like uh Bella Abzug uh and um uh uh uh Susan Brown Miller, they were moving in and taking rightfully uh charge of an advocacy for women, but their being who they were, there was a lot of racism within the women's movement. So that the hundred black women grew out of a collective set of people who had resources, who had extraordinary um uh credential, uh, more than than the white women that I'm talking about. But because they were African American women, they didn't get mainstream recognition. And uh the context was set in terms of socioeconomics of this country. Women did not really, you know, that there's evolution. Uh but uh I hate to do this, but I must. I'll say to you that in the 17th century, when the colonies were uh forming the 13 colonies that set up this country, in 1769, the men who were the heads of the 13 colonies voted to take away the privilege or not to give the privilege, let me say it that way, to women to vote. That they created a circumstance in 1769 and voted in 1777, a year after the revolution, that women were they didn't they didn't use this term, but women were property.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

Now it was higher.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

Say that again.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

I heard you uh talk on an interview about the importance of women during the time of the founding fathers, that they were very um hands-on exactly. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because that's not something we're told we're taught in history.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

Well, uh Koki Roberts wrote a wonderful book called The Founding Mothers, and I use it in my syllabus at my uh NYU Wagner uh uh school of uh social policy, I use it uh is as part of the required readings. And what you learn is that the the the sexism is is really anchored by hypocrisy. Because the men, when they needed the women to load the muskets or to be spies uh uh in the as we were fighting for independence, women learned how to with Martha Washington, even though she was a known racist, but she was the one who was bringing food to the troops. She was the one, Martha Washington, that was teaching the other women of the remember, it was aristocrats that really were founding the country. So that the the the uh founding fathers and the founding mothers, um the the their fight for social justice and equity was somewhat limited, but the spirit of that fight is what has propelled America to where we are today with Kamala Harris, right? So women played a vital role in giving um vaccines uh the that was all experimental uh on the front line, as I said, delivering the food, taking care of the wounded soldiers. Uh when um uh especially uh during the uh uh you had the British and you had uh the revolutionaries here, and the what the women did was they they sewed messages in their skirts, or they s or they sh they had techniques that were spy techniques that we see reflected in film series today. Uh very smart and very sophisticated, not unlike, and I'll fast forward, not unlike World War II, where you know you had Rosie the Riveter. Women have stepped up and proven themselves, you know, and have been extremely competent. Obviously, that's a blanket statement. There are always exceptions to a rule, but the hypocrisy of a patriarchy is what has held us back.